[Idea] New Abilities

[Nootau]

Elemancy Ability idea... Forged Elements. It allows you to type Channel <Geo> <Sword> and it would make a sword for you while maintaining the two channels, this weapon has the elemental flare effect on every hit? and is a exceptional weapon, mastercraft if you have three channels. Release channels, sword disappears.

Should require Compression Pattern

[Rias]

First off, we wouldn't want a single Elemancer ability being as powerful as several Trader abilities and who knows how many hours' worth of "mundane" blacksmithwork efforts.

Second off, even with a compression pattern going, a weapon made of the densest conjured earth would be too brittle to be useful as a melee weapon. A geobolt works because it's a single smash with a large, solid object, even if it is fairly brittle. A sword would be long and thin in addition to being brittle, and break quite quickly, to say nothing of the cutting edge not being able to hold up to any real impact (so it would be below-average quality). I don't think the Elemancers would spend time researching and developing this, considering how extremely limited and ineffective it would be in comparison with just picking up an average sword.

[Nootau]

Oh well.. Another blow knocking the status of god hood away. Can you make a list then of all trader special weapons? Or who should I ask about that? Landion?

[Rias]

That would be Landion.

[Landion]

No, elemancy will not be replacing or being as good as trader skills... just to be clear.

And no, I don't want to release a list of special weapons.

1- It will change.
2- Any blacksmith who puts in the time can get nearly all the weapon types anyway.
3- It ruins the surprise for those Trader blacksmiths that actually get to that point. (There is 1 so far, so go see what he's made and trying to sell.)

[Nootau]

Elemental Focus

>Increase the elemental Flare chance when striking while channeling an element from 20% to 50%.
>Aeromancy channeled lowers attacking Round time by 2 seconds.
>Geomancy flares have a 10% chance at blinding the target.
>Hydromancy channeled increases energy loss of a successful attack by 5.
>Pyromancy channeled has a 75% flare chance.

[Rias]

The different elements already have different chances of flaring, and I don't intend to add any Elemancer abilities that are geared toward enhancing armed combat. Some effects of elemancy can be useful for physical combatants, but that has more to do with happy coincidence than design intent of the channels/patterns. The University doesn't really put effort into developing techniques for specifically aiding armed combat.

Just general musing, since I've already said "no" to specifically physical-combat-enhancing abilities: I've never understood the logic behind "Air = Hasted Attacks". I suppose people could be thinking something like "use the air to push the weapon along, making it move faster," but I would think causing another force to move your weapon faster than is normal or humanly possible would end up throwing you off significantly anyway, either causing you to lose sufficient grip on the weapon or cause you to take more time to recover from the force added to the strike beyond what you could do on your own.

[Isiaa]

Well air and wind are mixed up often especially in RPGesque things. And then they mix up physical properties and spiritual beliefs about the elements. The logic behind air=haste is flawed and not viable for elemancers as they control physical elements as opposed to spiritual elements. That would be more along the lines of air magic which in my mind is seperate from aeromancy where one is the manipulation of physical air and the other is more spiritual.

[Nootau]

The concept for wait was you have learned to use the air in bursts in tactics. This would normally be impossible(hence it is not a base effect) without training. There is a reason it only increases speed by less than 20%

[Isiaa]

Even in bursts a significant increase in speed could still knock the weapon from your hands. A human body can't keep up with that speed. You might even break your hand if you don't let go. A bonus to ranged weapons damage while channelling aeromancy would make sense.

[Nootau]

Bursts of speed to someone untrained and unprepared would do as you said. Those specially trained will be able to handle the faster speeds then what normally possible. You assume RT is the human physical limit, it is not. It is the common limit.

[Isiaa]

Someone specially trained still has a limit. Namely ten times the weight of the bone applied in force. Although that is the upper leg. So there is an upper limit. And then their is when the weapon actually hits something. Every action has an equal and opposite re-action. Thus if you hit something that force is going to travel up your arm. Also how would this work lore-wise. The university does not focus on combat and this is a specific combat ability. Of course the university does not govern the studies of masters and only partially that of it's journeymen(I should think anyway. Apprentices would have to be regulated, Journeymen less so and masters not at all. I believe anyway.) So one of those might have developed it separately and might be willing to teach the technique but it has limits. So while round time would decrease continual use of this specific and specialized skill would cause damage to your arm even with special training.

[Isiaa]

Now some ideas of my own.

Howling winds.

A simple spell which speed up the winds.

Thick fog.

A simple spell which causes the air to be filled with water which condenses into fog.

Heat wave.

A simple spell which causes the surrounding area to heat up.

Nothing with earth cause these are all to with the weather... Now in conjunction these three cause a pretty nasty rain storm but they all require constant channeling so it requires multi-elemental weaving for a start as well the ability to use three elements. Fog+heat=Cloud. Wind causes the rain to go faster and thus drench everyone in the immediate area because affecting a larger area would be very difficult.

[Nootau]

You are constantly forgetting something. Currently there is no difference in speed of usage between someone who have over a thousand points of skill and someone who and one. So the basis of your argument is invalid.

The concept that the school regulates its scholars is also unfounded. Please supply supporting evidence of such reasoning.

Lastly you say it damages the body, yes it does in the hands of someone untrained. So do the act performed by most professional athletes. Your chain of though is unfounded using real and fantasy logic.

[Isiaa]

Hmm... Ok. Apprentice who are being taught how to use fire for example might cause a lot of harm. Journeymen are Journeymen and still have some things to learn. Masters have completed the basic and some advanced education on the elements. Now the university I am sure does not want to expend large amounts of money on repairs and thus strictly regulate apprentices so that they don't damage the university or of course if an apprentice were to lose control in a village. A mob would form which would have to be placated, bought of or destroyed. Or one could hire mercenaries to do it. Thus apprentices are regulated.
Journeymen, while more educated are still learning and are a lot less likely to lead to this but their experiments might still go wrong being experiments, which due to the energies involved are volatile.
Masters are trusted and generally unregulated unless of course they have a history of such...events.

Now the skills I can understand. And I hadn't considered them but they are a separate issue. Unless you mean to say someone who is both a master swordsman and a master aeromancer is able to pull of these feat.

As for trained versus untrained that goes without saying. But simply expecting magic to speed it up as was the original statement would be ridiculous. The training would also as I said be specialized and would also require somebody having an interest. (I am thinking IC.) Why would someone develop such an interest? The elemancers are a scholarly body and already have several combat abilities. Certainly the results would be interesting but at first the training would be painful, secondly it would be lengthy until one is able to pull it off and thirdly there would still be a certain limit.

2 seconds of round time is reasonable certainly and I do not see why Templars, Dwaeden Wyr and mercenaries don't have the ability to use medium and small weapons at such speeds once they have mastered them.

[Nootau]

Isiaa.. Please stop retroactively writing fluff to reinforce your argument. If there is reference to current fluff, please link to its original and approved source. You say each rank are treated one way or another or seen one way or another.. There are no records that the school is responsible for its students nor that all elemancers are from the school.

Also you are wrong again. I never said it would just speed you up. I stated it would be a forward moving current pushing you forward akin to the lowered RT for travel as a journeyman Aeromancer. As for why would they wish for such, it is simple. Not everone who can use the elements is meant to be the same.

No where is it listed that Elemancers only focus on using their channels and casts for fighting. As the wiki area of Elemancers directly put it "While the University doesn't teach any non-magical combat skills, Elemancers can utilize their influence over the elements to enhance combat skills that they learn independently from general trainers or independent practice. As an example, an Elemancer might channel fire while swinging a sword for a chance to accompany a sword strike with a burst of fire." Not all Elemancers are robe and beard scholars. It should not be their only choice.

As for the others, they are not the topic at hand. I did not say they shouldn't, nor that Elemancers should be the only ones able to do this. I was only giving a path for Elemancers to walk. Seeing as Rias -only- said that the school would not teach such things, rather than being impossible, it means such abilities could be possible under extensive private studies. This does not detach from the fact that not all Elemancers walk lock step with the University.

[Nootau]

[quote=Rias]The different elements already have different chances of flaring, and I don't intend to add any Elemancer abilities that are geared toward enhancing armed combat. Some effects of elemancy can be useful for physical combatants, but that has more to do withhappy coincidence than design intent of the channels/patterns. The University doesn't really put effort into developing techniques for specifically aiding armed combat.[/quote]

So the focus for any ability learned would have to focus on the Elemancer, not on what he wears or what he wields. While they have synergy it can never be the focus point and must be stand alone?

Elemancers currently do not have a way to stay at ranged even though their abilities are focused on staying at ranged and not engaged. Would it be within theme then for them to have such an ability?

Aero - Hop back to ranged, requires apprentice aeromancy but does not require a channel open?

[Rias]

Their abilities suffer no penalty for being used at Engage, unlike hurling or ranged weapons, so I wouldn't say they're focused on staying ranged. They also have a lot of disablers via knockdowns, including area-effect ones, so they're plenty capable of escaping melee engagement (moreso than any ranged-focus guild, like Udemi).

I'm not against a pure escape ability, but considering their current lineup already has several escape capabilities that also have other effects or damage to go with them, it's not getting on the priority list.

[Nootau]

Guess I just have bad luck. Most of the time when I simply move to range from engaged, the targets (bears and wolves mostly) seem to force engaged instantly.

I thought the hop to ranged status was similar to the robber camp thieves which takes 3-4 rounds to get back into engaged range with them.

[Rias]

The point I was making is that you can use all your Elemancer abilities just as effectively from Engage as you can from Ranged. Being pulled to Engage doesn't hinder your abilities at all, unlike Udemi, who are focused on archery, which cannot be used at all at Engage. The only people who have any kind of bonus to the roll to escape melee engagement or avoiding being pulled from Ranged to Engage are Udemi, thanks to the Guerilla Tactics ability, which is still very much not a flawless escape. Casting an aero or hydro nova to knock enemies down and then moving to ranged is much more effective an escape (they can't prevent you at all while they're knocked down), though it costs a fair amount of energy.